Just an addedum to today's earlier post.
This Christmas, I'll be making the pumpkin chiffon pie that Oprah advised we cook. You may remember this from the pre-Thanksgiving episode with recipes by Cristina Ferrare.
As at least one of you mentioned, I see that the yokes are heated at one point in the cooking process, but the whites are not. They are whipped into a merengue and other items are folded into them. It's a no-bake pie. All the set-up happens in the fridge.
Is that safe? I've heard that the salmonella bacteria lives on the outside of the egg shell, not the inside...so if I thoroughly wash the eggs, is this enough of a safety precaution?
I'd prefer not to kill my inlaws this holiday season, so if you have any thoughts, let me know.
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Look for pasteurized in-shell eggs. If you can't find them, consider using regular egg yolks for the cooked part and buying a separate carton of pasteurized egg whites for the uncooked part. Though, really, I'm not sure how you would make an un-baked meringue...must investigate.
Hi there LO,
I'm not an expert on this, but I think that as long as the egg whites are kept refrigerated until just before their consumption, you should be okay. I seem to remember reading that egg white is not as hospitable to bacterial growth as is egg yolk. Obviously, be sure to use clean eggs and clean equipment. Most eggs don't contain enough salmonella to make a healthy person sick, but if you have any pregnant women, very young children, or very elderly persons at your gathering they might not want to partake.
Feel better :)
Ah. I see. It does look rather tasty.
Really, I wouldn't worry about salmonella unless you're feeding someone with a compromised immune system. Check out the eggnog episode of Good Eats for an amusing take on the subject. :-)
I'm kind of squeamish so I probably wouldn't make it although I didn't pledge to do everything Oprah said to. I don't see how they can claim that the pie is light with 2 1/2 cups of heavy cream in it. We had food poisoning last year on turkey day though, so I'm pretty careful.
liz
Salmonella is a problem in restaurants where they crack all the eggs for the breakfast rush and they let them sit all morning. Or so I heard on some news program. I use raw eggs now and then without any problem. I particularly like my eggs over easy for breakfast. I like to buy the freshest ones in the supermarket case and I use them pretty quickly.
Be sure to warn your guests! I found out about a few pregnancies by serving full-disclosure homemade ice cream.
I've never been able to find pasteurized whole eggs, but I've heard they do exist.
do you ever eat cookie dough? ever gotten sick eating cookie dough? it's probably about the same level of danger. I say you're probably OK.
Everytime I eat raw eggs (including yolks in kogel-mogel), I briefly think about it, but then I just take a risk. I call it a risk only because there's so much panic around it.
I also know a couple of runners that "drink" raw eggs for breakfast every day and they are fine.
I always use fresh, refrigerated eggs, preferably cage-free, I wash them, I dry them, I open them carefully, and I smell them to make sure they are not spoiled.
To be safe, I wouldn't give it to someone who has a compromised immune system.
Pasteurized egg whites won't whip up as well as you will need them to whip for this pie. And egg whites should be at room temperature for whipping.
I recently read a synopsis of a study about asthma rates in Berlin pre- and post-wall. Pre-wall, the West Germans had higher rates of asthma, but post-wall the East Germans have matched the West German rates. The conclusion of the study is that because the East Germans had lower levels of public sanitation, lived in close proximity to their farm animals and did most of their food slaughtering and processing at home, they were exposed to more bacteria on a daily basis and therefore had higher resistance to allergies and asthma. Post-wall, when sanitation had improved and more people were able to achieve a West German lifestyle, that resistance disappeared.
My point in all this is that as Americans, we are too worried about minuscule dangers in food. Those raw eggs will harm no one. Raw eggs are more easily digested than cooked eggs, because the proteins haven't been denatured.
Lo,
You are totally fine. Egg whites are very safe. The number of eggs with salmonella is minute and as long as you follow safe handling procedures you are fine.
I might not risk it if I were feeding someone with a compromised immune system.
Raw eggs CAN be very dangerous if not handled correctly.
However if you have ever eaten properly prepared mousse, or home made mayo- they have raw egg in them.
It is much more dangerous from a food safety point of view to wash your poultry.
That can splash bacteria everywhere.
celia
As an in-law, I would prefer not to be killed, too. I've made pies like this, and feel completely safe with it. And I know your 3yo niece will love anything you make. You can use our organic, cage-free, fresh eggs, and any other ingredients you'd rather not schlepp down from Chicago.
Love, SIL-LO
I am a paralegal. From a legal perspective, if Oprah's legal team approved the recipe, it's probably not going to hurt anyone, except in some bizarrely extreme case. She's not going to publicize a recipe that's hazardous.
I use raw eggs all the time and have never been sick from them. Eggs are safe. If you are nervous about them though, heat a little cup (a coffee cup is fine) of water in the micro just until it boils. Drop your egg into it and let it cool. The eggs will be free of any bacteria but really, they are fine just as they are, right from the carton. Lots of people eat raw and undercooked eggs in recipes or right out of the shell and don't ever get sick.
Sara Moulton always makes a point that if handled correctly eggs are pretty safe for pretty much everyone. If you have someone with a compromised immune system, as everyone else is saying, they may not want to partake. just make sure there is an alternate yummy dessert in addition to this one.
I love your project and hope you won't stop when your year is over!
Did anyone see Gayle King today on Good Morning America with "Oprah's favorite things under $50.00"?
Salmonella is never a problem with yokes as the blog suggests. Ask any pair of oxen. :-)
Salmonella starts in the ovaries of hens according to Shirley O. Corriher in her cookbook, "Cookwise." She also explains how to kill the bacteria. Hens with salmonella may or may not lay eggs that contain the bacteria and a healthy flock may carry it regardless of their habitat.
Hi - I've been reading your blog for a while and I don't usually comment but I wanted to add my two cents to this post. I used to work inspecting restaurants and teaching food safety and I've found that it's a common misconception that salmonella isn't found inside the egg but scientists have proven otherwise. The restaurants I inspected would use a pasteurized egg product instead. Sometimes they would choose to serve salad dressings with raw egg and then they would be required to label that menu item as containing raw egg and warn that it may cause illness - especially in young children, the elderly, and immunocompromised. I didn't see this episode of Oprah, but it sounds like they didn't even mention that this could be an issue - which really irritates me.
you're fine. people have been making meringue for a long time...
Salmonella is on the outsides of eggs and the INSIDE of the eggs as well. You cannot detect it by looking at the egg or the hen who laid it.
The FSIS (part of the US Dept of Agriculture) thinks it may be in 1 of every 10,000 eggs, or 1 in 5,000 eggs if you're in the northeast.
I wouldn't play with those odds if I had young children, elderly people, pregnant women, or anyone with an illness or chronic condition eating my food. Eggs that have been pasteurized in the shell are for my peace of mind.
It is important to handle and cook the eggs properly.
To reach 160 degrees, the egg is cooked until it's hard.
You can still cross-contaminate your kitchen if you wipe egg goo on a towel or don't clean it up off your counter top thoroughly. The bacteria colony grows in size rather rapidly in a friendly environment like that.
Haven't you folks seen the safe handling instructions on the egg carton?
I got salmonellosis from eggs a few years back. I spent 3 days in the hospital. It was horrible.
Thank goodness I was young and healthy with a good immune system then.
I made a similar pumpkin chiffon pie for Thanksgiving and it is unbelievably fabulous! Definitely keep it chilled until you serve. Also, to the poster who wondered about the heavy cream -- look, this pie easily serves 8-10 people, so the cholesterol/fat is distributed, er, widely.....LO, you and yours will love this dessert!
I never eat raw eggs. So that is one recipe I will not be using.
i keep meringue powder on hand for these kind of situations. it can be a little pricey but it's really useful a keeps for a long time in the fridge:
http://www.google.com/products?q=wilton+meringue+powder&sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1B3DVFD_enCA246CA246&um=1&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title
I say relax and enjoy the delicious pie. If anyone dies, what a way to go!
I think this has to be a known risk thing. Let everyone know and let them make the choice for themselves. But this is coming from a raw-cookie dough lover! In fact, I don't let my boys lick the beaters when there's raw dough; I just keep them for myself. :>)
By the way, while you're fighting this cold, you should realize that any sugar you eat supports inflammation. So I recommend not having any pie until your bug is gone. Here I go with the free advice again!
Dee - I love your point about her legal department OKing the recipe. I hadn't thought of that, but I bet you're right!
Anonymous 2 - I just went to the GMA website and checked out the segment. All I can say is that I am highly ticked off that all of these great ideas were shared on a morning show and in her magazine, but the "Favorite Things" show was such a bust. What, did they not want to give away that stuff to the audience? I also had to wonder if all of the items are actually Oprah's favorites or just cool stuff the magazine staffers found.
For what it's worth, I heard about this pie recipe when listening to the "Whatever" show on Sirius (Alexis Stewart and Jennifer something). They made it sound pretty gross actually.
I tried an Oprah pie recipe once - cindy crawford's strawberry rhubarb pie - the recipe for the crust was awful. I had to redo the whole thing using another pie crust recipe, and the filling. I don't trust the Oprah recipes online much after that.
I think the point about the legal department ok'ing the recipe is stupid.
Just because someone not well-versed in the science of safe food says something's ok, does that make it safe?
Facts are facts people. Make your own decisions, but you should at least make that decision based on facts.
Keep posting stuff like this i really like it
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