Because of this economy - have you noticed it, by the way? It's not so hot - Anyway, lots of overindulged kids are not able to live in the lap of luxury as they have become accustomed. The question is, how do we tell the tots, 'tweens and teens that we're going to crush their dreams of iPhones, Wii's, and a college education? Enter non-mamas, Oprah and Suze, to teach us (and by us, I mean, YOU - I don't have kids) how to communicate money matters with our (and by our, I mean YOUR) kids.
I think these overindulged kids are just symptoms of a much larger, underlying disease in this country. Kids are a reflection of the adults they see. And as the housing and credit crises show, we adults are seething cauldrons of want. More more more! Many behave like they deserve to live beyond their means. Know what? I did. Right out of college. I had about 4 years of crazy spending and acting like math didn't apply to me. I fought my way to a more honorable lifestyle and strongly believe in spending the money I have, rather than the money I wish was in my wallet.
But I can imagine that's hard when you've got kids. First of all, it's CRAZY expensive for my husband and I, and our two felines, to make ends meet. When are those cats going to start pulling their own weight?! I am clueless how we'd do it with children. But, on top of that, I'd want to give my kids the world. And then some. I'm sure there has to be a balancing act to master: to teach abundance, without giving one's kids the idea that abundance = more stuff.
While I can be hard on Suze, she warmed my heart today when she talked about teachers being underpaid...most even spending their own money to put together the materials for their classes. And to expect people living in "poverty" (Suze's word) to teach kids how to manage money, isn't all that reasonable. You know, my mom's a public school teacher - and a fabulous one at that - and I have tons of close friends who are also in the profession. I know how hard they work and it was nice to hear Suze give them some props.
Oprah thought quite highly about Suze's pieces of advice to parents/kids. She told us all, "Whether you're a parent or grandparent, aunt or uncle, I hope you'll pass some of them along to a child you love." Well, I am an aunt to a 3 year old. She's brilliant, but I don't think I can explain the stock market to her quite yet. And I'm guessing that teaching her how to manage a mortgage she can afford is still a bit out of her grasp. Maybe I can teach a lesson through the way Jim and I manage her holiday gifts this year. Ideas?
(Oh, before I sign off - the dad who wrote his daughter a letter about being fiscally responsible before she left for college reminded me SO strongly of something my own dad did. I rifled through the box of my cherished cards and letters and found my dad's note. So, I wanted to say to my father - good work, you were ahead of your time! If only I had listened as well as the much better daughter on today's show.)
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
Posts
28 comments:
take your 3yo niece to the dollar store and give her a budget to buy gifts for her parents. I know my 3yo understood money a whole lot better when we made him earn allowance and then took him there to talk about budgeting! he caught on REALLY fast when he had to figure out how to buy something for his parents and still have money left to buy himself a toy!
LO, I so agree with you about teachers & love when they get the reconition they deserve. Did you see the favorite things episode a couple years ago where the entire audience was full of school teachers. They thought they were there for a show about education but Oprah surprised them all with tons of free stuff and they would cry and hug one another every time she gave them something.
Also, I think one of the best Oprah moments of all time was back in the 1980s when Oprah was reunited with her 4th grade teacher Mrs Duncan. As soon as Oprah said "Please welcome Marry Duncan" this little old white lady with a huge bun walked on stage and Oprah put her hand over her face and started crying so hysterically I think they had to cut to commercial. Oprah said it was so emotional because for the first time Oprah was hit by the fact that Mrs Duncan had a first name and an identity outside of being the teacher who inspired her to do great things, gave her a sense of value, and made it okay to be smart.
Apparantly the other kids though didn't like Oprah because she was such a teacher's pet who was always preaching to the other kids. For years Oprah wanted to be a 4th grade teacher because of Mrs Duncan & even now tries to use her show as a classroom.
The best part of the show was when Oprah asked "so was I your favorite that year?" and Mrs Duncan replied "of course, but I couldn't let the other kids know."
The whole audience was crying, even the men.
I think it shows the value of a good teacher that Oprah herself has said she would not be where she is had it not been for Mrs Duncan. Oprah had a very dysfunctional home life and required far more attention than her unwed mother (who cleaned houses for a living) was ever able to give her. But it was in Mrs Duncan's class where Oprah's love for books and learning was really appreciated, and Oprah was able to really shine.
Wow morepower, you made me go and research about Mrs. Duncan. Here's what I found, Mrs. Duncan was reunited with Oprah on her show in 1989. Then almost 20 years later (2007!!! during The Osmonds episode), Mrs. Duncan came back to the Oprah show. You can see a picture of Oprah embracing her former teacher last year here: http://www.oprah.com/slideshow/oprahshow/oprahshow2_ss_bts20071109/10
Yeah, Oprah has made it VERY CLEAR so many times how much she LOVES teachers.
I'm sorry, here's the rest of the link:
/oprahshow2_ss_bts20071109/10
The nice thing about never having much money to begin with is that my KIDS know they just simply don't get everything they want. They KNOW when dad and I say "no" we mean it, wither it's a can of Pringles at the grocery store or a $450 week of girl scout resident camp. My kids know we live by the budget and that both Mom and Dad have to consider expenditures wisely.
One thing we've done in the last several years when it comes to Christmas gifts is this. Each child gets three and only three gifts from us. One want, one need, and a book. We also get one "group" gift like a game or tickets to some event or museum or the like. Now we don't limit what grandparents or other relatives choose to do but we do ask them to shop wisely. This method of Christmas shopping has saved us lots of $$$$$. We also tend to make a lot of gifts - especially for school teachers, neighbors and family friends.
My children have never received an allowance. I also don't pay them for chores that are expected of them for being part of a family and I DON'T pay for good grades as they are expected. Now if the kids go above and beyond what is expected of them I will pay them and they know that. Just this past week my boys decided on their own to pick up the yard and gather together all the brush that I had trimmed from our trees during the week. They did such a good job that I paid both of them. If the girls would have helped they would have been paid as well. The week before my eldest dd got paid for doing one of her brother's regular chores as a favor to him as he was struggling with a heavy load of homework all week long. She showed compassion and a servant's attitude and that was something to reward.
don't get me going on teachers! LOVE THEM! My kids have been blessed by having some of the best teachers I've ever had the pleasure of meeting and getting to know!
I had a neighbor that couldn't pay her mortgage, her 2nd, her credit card bills, her medical bills, etc. but somehow they still had enough money to choose to have a 3rd child, buy their 6 year old a motorcycle, drive a brand new 4wd extended cab truck, pay for ballet lessons, buy a PS3 when they came out, buy her 3 year old some kind of dirt bike, along with anything else the kids wanted. Their house was foreclosed on last year and according to them "it's the government's fault" they lost their house.
People need to be held accountable for their actions. I used to watch them buy all these things and wonder what her 3 kids thought about that.
Let me add that Mrs. Duncon came on the show to talk to Oprah after The Osmonds show. From looking at the picture, Oprah looked like she was crying again. :)
Wow mkc, I wonder if they bought all that with another credit card.
When I was a public school teacher before becoming a mom, I actually had to buy my own books and my own supplies and also much of my own furniture and storage containers. Dang, I was poor, but I sure loved teaching!
My husband and I agree that babies are cheap, it's when they get to school age that they get expensive. My children are not demanding about things or activities, it's just ordinary regular life that costs more.
I think kids get the message about buying things if their parents show good discipline about what they buy for themselves and the family at the stores. I often point out to to my kids is that responsible people, no matter how rich they are, make careful choices about how they spend their money. It isn't always about what we can or can't afford, but what things we decide are important enough to add to our life.
Give your niece something thrifty and practical like homemade playdough in assorted colors or an art kit. Find a way to have her help out with making something special for her mom and dad or her grandma and grandpa. Handmade gifts are the best gifts of all.
My aunts, uncles, grandparents always bought me books for Christmas. Specifically, books that they had read as children and loved for one reason or another and that they felt would teach me a lesson. They bought my brother science games. I'm not sure how that could teach your niece about finances but with that system, I never exactly came to expect electronics or anything super fancy or popular.
About the year soon coming to a close: I hope you will keep posting for a while so we can see what you are like sans Oprah's advice. How will we really know what kind of a difference she made on you if we don't know what you're like without her? :)
The real danger isn't spending money on kids, it's buying their love and loyalty, and that's not dependent on the amount involved. You can do that at the dollar store just as easily as at the computer store, perhaps more so since the smaller amounts fly under the radar more readily. $5.00 on toys that are forgotten or broken after a week is more problematic, I think, than $500 on a piece of electronic equipment that's used daily for years. Even worse if the dollar store runs become habitual. The small amounts disguise the fact that shopping has become a form of entertainment or source of attention in and of itself, beyond the toys themselves.
A trip to the computer store results in a far more frugal, useful purchases for my engineering-bound son than a trip to the dollar store.
You also can't buy ambition and hard work. Because lessons cost money, it's too easy to focus on that and neglect the child's contribution. Take my own son, once again. Lots of kids take swimming lessons. The money I spent on them isn't what got my son his assistant instructor position, and it won't get him his lifeguard certificate. He has to bring something to the table there himself.
He can't get to that table at all, however, without my money to help him, whether it's swimming or computers, and I don't see that support as incompatible with frugality. It's just part of teaching him to set priorities and work toward goals, as well as a way of letting him know I believe in him enough to put my money where my mouth is.
Have I spoiled him? Depends on how you define it. If you consider years of swimming lessons and having his own computer spoiled, then guilty as charged.
If you define it as buying kids lots of unnecessary things in order to gain their loyalty, or purchasing their way out of hard work by buying favors from others, then no.
First I want to thank everyone for their thoughtful comments (and LO for her post) today. As I read them I'm reminded of how much I enjoy being a part of this little community and how much I really enjoy your perspectives.
I hadn't seen the Mrs Duncan show, but I sure wish I had. Morepower thank you so much for describing it for us.
moredayslikethis, I love your three gift idea. I think it's really brillant and will definitely keep it mind for when I have kids.
LO, I know exactly what you mean about your spending after college and your advice from your parents. I feel so thankful for my parents and like they did a really good job of being good parents without overindulging us kids.
Aunt LO: Funny, we were going to talk to the family soon about holiday gifts this year (before even being prompted by the show!) None of us need more stuff. We know how precious your time is -- especially this year -- and we just want to spend time with you both. (So maybe we are greedy.) Your niece wants to decorate more gingerbread cookies with Uncle Jim and show her aunt the sharks at the zoo. It warmed my heart to see in print what I know you feel for your niece.
--Your 3yo, brilliant niece's mom
LO, I'd love to know what your dad said to you in that letter if you feel comfortable sharing. I have a 16 year old and I'm trying to prepare myself for that day.
Teaching kids about saving and compound interest speaks more loudly to them than the concept of frugal spending. Earning money on your money by just putting it in a savings account is a very attractive concept to kids.
For your niece, I would buy her a share in McDonalds and show her how to find it in the paper, and chart the growth of her investment. Kids love to do that.
LO, I'd love to know what your dad said to you in that letter if you feel comfortable sharing. I have a 16 year old and I'm trying to prepare myself for that day.
Teaching kids about saving and compound interest speaks more loudly to them than the concept of frugal spending. Earning money on your money by just putting it in a savings account is a very attractive concept to kids.
For your niece, I would buy her a share in McDonalds and show her how to find it in the paper, and chart the growth of her investment. Kids love to do that.
Heh...if memory serves, my dad's advice when dropping me off at college was, half-jokingly, "Try not to do anything too stupid." :-)
I loved the dad letter.
I have explained the stock market to a five year old. I held my hand up high and said the "Here's where the market was when there was money." Then I dropped my hand down and said, "Here's where the market is now because there isn't as much money to buy things." I've been told she now holds up her hand and asks "Is the stock market up here or down here today?" This same girl runs her own beverage stand in the summer and has been learning how to make her own money. Her parents feel it's never to early to teach kids to sell. It's a skill you can use your whole life.
Teachers make a great wage up here. The union is strong and provinicial taxes finance the schools. I remember friends who really struggled to earn a living teaching in the CPS.
LO-- I think the first family we saw -- the ones who gave their kids everything and then realized they had to say no -- perfectly illustrate your point about kids being symptoms of the adults they see. The 15 year old daughter was so used to having everything she thought NOT getting stuff must mean her family was now "poor"! I've got news for that girl... My sister and I grew up with a single mom, and while dad helped, his income was also pretty limited. It was always clear that my mother was JUST making ends meet. Today, as a single woman with no kids, I marvel at the job my mother did providing for us -- and we never felt poor, although by that day's standards we were probably very close. As a twentysomething, I too went through a phase of crazy spending, telling myself I deserved it, after all, for all those years of not getting everything I wanted; oddly enough, none of that stuff made me happier in the long term - I'm sure the thrill wore off long before I was done paying for it!
Even though Oprah and Suze aren't moms, I thought their message to parents was pretty important: talk to your kids about money (at the appropriate time, of course!), but also about the value of love and family. I see my friends with kids really struggling with questions of allowance (I lauged out loud at Suze's advice that "Kids should not be paid for being born!"), gadgets, getting into the BEST college, how to reward good grades, etc, and I know I come off sounding like Suze: it's simple stupids!!!! They respond that it's really hard to look into your child's eyes and say "No" when they see all of their friends (and in one instance cousins) getting everything. And LO is right, as adults, their parents and other adult role models are also fairly used to getting what they want - we've had many discussions among my friends about how the current economy is forcing us to scale back to a more "normal" level of consumption - something we've been taking for granted for years.
LO,
I only saw a brief moment of the show, where the mom who wanted to send her 8-year-old to Costa Rica was trying to justify it to Suze. Was it just me or did that mom totally seem like she was going to ignore the advice?
"But he's fluent in Spanish!" I was gobsmacked.
If you celebrate Christmas, one way to limit gifts is to tell your kids that they only get as many gifts as baby Jesus did: three.
LO -
The best gift for your niece is time. Offer to take her for the weekend and show her around Chi-town. There are so many fun things to do with the little ones in the city (navy pier, millenium park, children's museum). She gets bonding time with you, gives Mom and Dad a weekend alone, and time and love are always the best gifts - they are priceless!
I appreciated the shout-out to teachers. However, I think its important to point out that teaching does not necessarily equal a lifetime in the poor house. My sister, a public school teacher with a Masters degree, earns almost double what many of her friends in non-profit and university jobs does. Plus, she has significantly more job security than many of her peers, especially in this economic climate. More alarming to me is how little many private school and daycare providers make. I work at a university and increasingly I see undergraduates looking to public school teaching for economic (and job satisfaction) reasons.
I was going to offer some tips regarding the gifts I give my niece, but all the comments so far pretty much cover them. I just had to say I enjoy reading your blog and, reading comments for the first time, was just blown away by how sweet everyone is. You obviously bring it out in people as you seem to be such a genuine and nice woman. Wishing you all the best with thanks for giving me something lovely to read online.
I began reading this blog last week after seeing LO on the Today Show. This is the first time I've made a comment here and, I was very impressed with the intelligent ideas that everyone brought forth. I think I'm going to enjoy being part of this online community also.
Your insight to this show was spot on. I have 2 sisters in law who happen to be teachers in upscale suburban neighborhoods. I was stunned to learn how much of their out of pocket funding goes to their classrooms. It made me rethink sending in gift cards and supplies to my children's teachers. I have to tell you that I am enjoying your experiment and insights. Susan
My nieces and nephews get savings bonds for Christmas. Yes, I'm *that* aunt. It teaches them to save (or at least it will when the bonds mature) and they just have so much stuff already that I can't see buying them more toys. Well, I do get them a small something to open -- stuffed animal, art supplies, legos. Every time I'm with them, that's what they want me to play with them anyway, not Wii.
I was annoyed when the dad who'd written the financial advice letter to his daughter suggested that the schools need to be teaching such things to our children. I'm tired of parents putting the blame on schools when their kids go out into the world and make poor choices. Regardless of whether their child's school is able to include money management as part of the curriculum, teaching children about money is still something that parents ought to be doing as a part of THEIR job. Just my two cents . . .
I'm all for teaching money management in schools. It's not the child's fault that they have irresponsible or uneducated parents. Not all parents are capable of teaching these things to their children. It would be nice if, in addition to subjects like Algebra that hardly ever have much real life application, that money management/economics is taught. It would help all kids, especially underprivileged kids, start out on equal footing. And on the right foot, I might add.
I also want to add that I found the kids on the show to be a little bratty and annoying. I don't even spend that much money on designer jeans myself. And I'm an adult with a decent job, a decent amount of savings, and no debt. Kids these days (I sound so old) are way too entitled. The real world is going to smack them hard. It's so sad that so many of them will be so unprepared to deal with it.
Post a Comment